Entrepreneurship is NOT a Zero Sum Game (and NOT building a company can be a win!)

Straight to you from Denver, Colorado, this is Precursa: The Startup Journey. We share the ins and outs of building a tech startup from inception to launch to revenue and beyond. If you’ve ever wondered what building a startup from scratch really looks like, you’re in the right place. With full transparency and honesty, we reveal it all about Precursa on our ride from idea to exit: the wins, the lessons learned, and the unexpected twists and turns.

Hello everybody. Welcome back. This is Precursa: The Startup Journey. I am your host, Cynthia Del’Aria, I’m the CEO and co-founder of Precursa. And today I want to talk about a couple of different things. So the first thing I want to do is I want to sort of like bring something around that somebody asked me earlier this week, which is we do talk a lot about fundraising. We talk a lot about getting investors, talking to investors, doing the pitch, because as I’ve said many times before, and I’m sure I’ll say it many times, again, a huge part of your job as a founder and a CEO of a startup is going to be the fundraising process. I’ve also said a lot of times, it always takes longer than you think. Like it never goes as fast as you think it’s going to. And both of those things are true. And both of those things are being played out right here at Precursa and right here in the podcast for so that I hope that as you listen to this, and as you walk through this journey with us in real time, it gives you a sense of like, you’re not alone, right? This is the journey, and however it’s going, that’s how it goes. And it’s okay. And there’s, you’re not doing something wrong. You’re not screwing it up. I want you to have that sense that you’re in the right place and you’re doing the right things, most likely. Okay. But the question that I got asked was, I keep waiting for you to come on and say, Hey, we raised our half a million dollars. We’re good to go, off and running, and now let’s get back to the business of running a business. Two things I want to say about that. First of all, we’re still running the business. It’s not like everything stops when you’re in fundraising mode. It can’t, right. Now there is a risk right now to our launch timeline. We’ve been shooting for early- to mid-September. That risk actually doesn’t have anything to do with the funding challenges that we’ve come up against. It actually has more to do with, as we have been working through building out the content for the platform, there’s a lot more detail and a lot more that we need to include in order for it to provide the value that we know it should provide for people, and recording that much content, editing that much content, takes a long time. So right now, actually the biggest risk, and we’re building a strategy around it and trying to make up some of that time. But as I said to Sarah Jolly one of my co-founders yesterday, I said, you know, there are things that you can throw resources at and speed up the amount of time that you get them done in. But there are things that actually just take the time they take. And the analogy that I always hear is nine women can’t make a baby in a month. So you can’t throw extra resources at making a baby because the process is the process, right? So balancing all of that, we’re still running the business. We still have to do that. And there is a risk to our timeline simply because we have this very real constraint, which is making sure that the right value gets created from the beginning so that people get the outcome we’re promising them for their monthly or annual subscription. So that said, the business hasn’t stopped running. So that’s the first piece to the answer to that question. The other piece answering the question is, it’s not like we’re going to go from, we’ve raised zero money to, we raised half a million dollars and that’s going to happen with one investor overnight. This is the messiest your cap table will look will be in your pre-seed, friends and family rounds because mostly your friends and family are going to have 10 grand here, 20 grand here. They’re not going to be, I mean, maybe you’ll find a couple of 50 or a hundred thousand dollar investors, but that’s going to be the rarity, and it’s not going to be the majority of them. So it’s very possible that you have 15 to 20, maybe more, investors in your cap table, just from your friends and family round. Why I’m saying that is because with friends and family in a way that a lot of institutional investments won’t do, and I’ll talk about that in a minute. But with friends and family, usually you can secure whatever amount of funds people are willing to put in pretty quickly and mobilize that money right away. Okay. So in some institutional rounds, what they’re looking for is they’ll say, okay, we’ll give you half, but you have to go fill the other half and you can’t mobilize any of the money until it’s full, right? So in that scenario, our hands would be tied because we’d have to go raise the full half a million before we would be able to close that money and start using it. In a friends and family round, most people in your friends and family network are going to be perfectly fine saying, yeah, great convertible note, those terms, look good. Maybe do a little bit of negotiating. They’ll write you the check. And maybe it takes a week or two to negotiate that whole thing. And you can start using whatever amount of money they’re putting in right away. That’s sort of one of the benefits of doing a friends and family round, is you don’t have as much restriction on the money, but the trade-off is usually your cap table gets a little bit messier. You have to have more investors, they’re smaller dollar amounts, which is why your proforma is so very important in that you have that dialed in so that you can look and say, okay, if we have to prioritize our spending, what are the things that we cannot give up on by the way advertising and marketing needs to be in the, you absolutely can’t give up on this category and then what can we deprioritize? Or what can we do a different way while we’re still raising the money? So what’s going to happen is over the next month probably I’m gonna come in and I’ll say, Hey, we raised another $25,000 this week, or we raised another $15,000 this week, or Hey, we raised 50,000 this week. That was pretty good. And that’s more the story. So at some point I’ll come in and say, we closed out our friends and family round.

05:53

We ended it, whatever the number was, we decided to close it off, but that will have happened over a period of weeks and potentially months to get to that point. It’s not going to happen overnight, or I’m not going to come in one week and be like, Hey, remember what I said, we had zero money raised last week. Now we have half a million dollars. It’s just, it’s unlikely to happen that way. Now, if you’re listening and you like what we’re doing, and you’re thinking I have half a million dollars I’d like to invest somewhere, you should call me because we would be more than happy to eat crow on what I just said, and take your money. So I hope, I hope that helps. And so essentially what we’ve done, we, as the founders, have put in about a hundred thousand dollars to this point, and we probably have another 50 that we’ll end up putting in through salaries that we’re paying through our other companies, and other ways that money is kind of getting into the company to fund various activities. And so ultimately the 500,000 that we’re raising is all outside investors. And we think we’ve got, based on literal family, some literal friends, and then a couple of people who have been referred to us in our network, we think we’re probably sitting right somewhere around 150 to 200,000 that we can close in the next three to four weeks. Now, obviously that can change. I mean, you’d be shocked at the number of times people get cold feet or, you know, at the last minute something happens and they get scared or, you know, whatever. So it’s not like we’re calling that money closed, but the level of confidence we have with that money is better than 80% right now. So that’s really good. I mean, that’s a great start. And that gives us leverage to go to other investors and say, look, we’ve already raised 150. We’ve put in a hundred of our own, will you come in and put in another hundred, hundred 50, $200,000? And that story is interesting to them. It’s more attractive because you aren’t asking them to take the bulk of the risk. Right? So that’s sort of, I said there was two pieces. This is really the third piece, which is the answer to the question, which is you have to start wrapping your mind around, you need to put in something. I understand that not everyone has a lot of money laying around. Probably for a lot of you, you’re working, you’re working a full-time job while you’re doing this. Start cash flowing some things, recognizing that in the books for your startup, as soon as you get it formally set up, and you need to be prepared to put some money in. Even if all you have is 5,000 or 10,000 or whatever you have that you can legitimately invest, do it. Because it looks better to an investor, when you say I am a little bit out on the edge, I am not telling you to take all of your retirement and mortgage your house. I would never tell you that. Okay. You’re never going to hear me say that putting yourself at risk financially for your startup makes any sense ever, okay. There is risk inherent in building something new, but I want it to be a calculated risk. If you’re looking around at your financial life and you’re like, you know what? I’ve got 20 grand that I could throw at this thing and it wouldn’t hurt me. It’s not going to impact my financial future. It’s not going put my family at risk. Then that’s what you should do. Okay? And this is different for everyone, but it is important that you show that you are invested and to be fair, sweat equity, isn’t the kind of investment that carries a lot of water with other investors. And the reason why is because you’re expected to do that anyway, like you’re going to have to do that in order to make this thing happen. You’re not going to be able to do a nine to five and get paid, whatever, you know, replace your full-time salary in your startup right away. That’s just not going to happen. You’re going to be putting in sweat equity. You’re going to be investing your time and energy. So that’s a given. What you invest monetarily shows whether you’re really in or not on what you’re doing and that carries weight with investors. So as we go, obviously, you know, I’m, I’m giving you guys updates on what’s happening every week in the company. I will continue to kind of tell you what’s going on with our fundraising activities. One of the pieces that I did want to tell you, I was kind of excited about this because we’ve been working on the pitch deck. We got some really great feedback from a friend of mine in PE and a couple of people in her firm that works specifically in tech investments in the PE firm. Really, really great feedback. And what we realized is that we needed a way to communicate what we are creating to investors that gets it really clear, like on the front slide where we have our logo and, you know, I’m the one presenting and all of that, like just a tagline of some kind that lets them know, this is what you’re in for in this pitch. This is what you’re looking at, right. To set some context. So we tossed around a bunch of stuff. And in the process we’re creating the 99 second pitch, which I think I’m going to be able to do for you guys next week. I’m super excited about that. But basically what we came up with was really kind of fun.

10:37

And what it does is it actually paints the picture for the future that we want to create and allows us to put the investors in a mindset of this is what you’re investing in. And it’s really cool. And it’s leveraging some of the technologies that, you know, even two years ago, when I first started thinking about Precursa, the maturity of artificial intelligence and machine learning as compared to the expense of those things was such that Precursa wouldn’t be possible the way that it is now. You know, we’re leveraging algorithms that are open source through Google and through Kaggle and through groups that are, you know, coming up with solving various problems through AI and machine learning algorithms. And the fact that open-source AI and open-source machine learning is a thing and is accessible, and that a lot of really, really brilliant people in that world are putting time and energy into that, means that we actually have the resources to build in a level of AI from the very beginning that makes this business as compelling as it is. So the tagline that we came up with, which is on the front, the very front slide of our pitch deck is Precursa, the predictive engine for startup success. Now for entrepreneurs, the way that we’re painting that is we are your entrepreneurial roadmap. You never have to ask now what we’re always going to tell you what that is. We’re always going to show you the, how we’re always going to explain why it’s important. And we are going to do a lot of the predictive things on the backend to help you understand how mature is my idea, how viable is my idea really? And is it worth my time and energy and money and all of that before I make a huge investment, that’s the problem we’re solving for entrepreneurs, but ultimately what we’re building is that predictive engine to tell you, what’s the probability of success in this startup, given the data that we have. And as I’ve said before, the more data there is in our system, plus all of the data we have in the larger startup community, whether that’s from PitchBook or Crunchbase or Owler or any number of sources, all of that together helps us not only understand what does a successful startup look like in the early stage that creates predictors for success at a later stage. But also we start to be able to look at the X-factor. We start to be able to see what are the things that the founders are doing from very early on all the way through the course of their startup journey that actually makes a difference. And can we quantify and teach more people how to grow the muscles of the X-factor? Because I just can’t believe it’s all about luck. I really do think there’s some secret sauce in there. And what we’re going to do is try and reveal that to help more people grow and hone and refine the secret sauce muscle so that they will find the right idea for them and really be able to make it a success. So ultimately what we are is becoming the predictive engine for measuring startup success, for predicting startup success, right? That’s why it’s a predictive engine. So super excited about that because immediately it makes it more clear what we’re talking about. So when we start talking about AI and we start talking about the roadmap, everybody’s like, oh, a roadmap for what it takes to build a successful startup, oh, AI that will predict what actually that successful startup looks like. So that was really exciting and really fun and sort of in the realm of like investor, an investor update, if you will, because here’s the thing about you all who are downloading the podcast and listening to the podcast and subscribing: you are investors in our company. Now you are getting value out of that, which by the way, investors get value out of investing in your company as well. But you are investors. You are, whether it’s because the journey is really interesting to you, whether it’s because you want to build a startup, but you’re nervous or you’re scared, or you’re like, I don’t know if I could do that. And listening to this is helping give you more context to judge that for yourself, whatever your reason is, you’re now an investor in our startup because you’re along for the ride and you’re supporting the journey. For as long as you are. Right? So in case I haven’t said it enough, thank you for being along on the journey with us and thank you for being an investor in our company. And thank you for entrusting us with 35 to 45, 50 minutes of your time every week.

14:55

Okay. So let’s get to the thing that I really want to talk about. This is the juice today. Okay. Which is, I have gotten this question so many times in so many different formats and it makes me sad. That’s what I want to say, because there’s a missing that creates competition between entrepreneurs that is artificial and creates more loneliness. We’ve talked a lot about the loneliness and the question is usually something around is entrepreneurship a zero-sum game. Okay. So said another way. What is zero sum game is, budgeting is a zero-sum game. If you have a thousand dollars that comes in a month, those dollars can only go all the places until you’ve spent a thousand dollars and then you’re out of money, right? So you’re budgeting until you hit zero. That’s a zero-sum game, which means in the case of a budget, one category has to win in order for another category to lose, or one category has to lose in order for another category to win, right? You can’t make money out of nothing. So said another way, does someone else have to lose in order for me to win at building my company? Does someone else’s company have to lose in order for me to win? Here’s the thing economies are not a zero-sum game. We, we always think of these as like a pie, right? They talk about that. I want to, I want my slice of the pie. The problem is a pie is a fixed thing, an economy is not a fixed thing. How you know that’s true, look a hundred years ago, and look today at the American economy, there is a heck of a lot more money. It just in the American economy, forget the global economy a hundred years later. If the pie is finite, that shouldn’t be possible. So what I’m pointing out is that economies are not about this is the whole pie, in an order for the big hedge fund guys to win, small guys have to lose. It’s actually not how it works. How it works is we’re all generating new value, which creates more opportunity to build wealth or to build more value in the economy as a whole. And that actually does create new dollars, because you’re building more value, you’re building more GDP over time. Okay. So I want you to stop thinking about this, like, oh, they’re out fundraising, so I can’t ask them for support or to talk to their investors or like, I shouldn’t do that because the, you know, I would hold mine really close to the vest. Well, maybe, I mean, but consider that if entrepreneurs had that community where they felt like they could share those resources, because it wasn’t like if an investor invests in their company, they’re not going to invest in mine. They may not invest in yours anyway. Or they may be willing to invest in both. Or they may not want to invest in either, but you don’t know because we’re all so busy acting like it’s a zero-sum game acting like if I win, you have to lose, like it’s necessary that you lose in order for me to win. Here’s the thing, the amount of investment dollars that are sitting on the sideline, especially… So this is June of 2021. The fear of inflation is massive right now. Right? We had this artificial shutdown in the economy. I say artificial, because we did that to ourselves due to Coronavirus. It wasn’t, it wasn’t a necessitated event. It was, you know, we made that choice in no judgment, either way on that. I’m just saying it was a voluntary shutdown of our entire economy for a long time. And that engine takes a long time to get started back up. Well, the problem is right now, what’s happening is people’s demand has been pent up. So there’s tons of demand for new houses and buying things and going on vacation and doing events and, right, there’s like this huge pent up demand, but factories haven’t been operating. They haven’t been building lumber. They haven’t been creating lumber. They haven’t been creating steel. It takes a while for the engine to get back up and running to be able to meet that demand. So there’s this huge fear of hyperinflation, which let’s be honest, it could happen. Not likely that it’s going to be really that much more than, you know, collectively our average is over time, it’s probably not going to skew that too much, because that would be really bad for the economy. And, you know, usually the Fed is really trying to prevent that. So there’s this huge fear of hyperinflation, which means a lot of people are taking money out and they have these gluts of cash sitting around doing nothing or next to nothing, you know, and that’s the perfect time to be going out and raising money because investors are looking for somewhere to put it that feels safer than the market in general. And what’s crazy is a lot of those investors, especially if they’ve ever invested in a startup or built a startup or built a company before, they will see the value of investing in someone that they know during this time over putting their money into a blind market. Now, if you’re listening to this and thinking I’m giving you financial advice, I’m not. I’m not a financial advisor, nothing that I’m saying should be construed as financial advice. I have a lot of my own opinions and what I’m doing with my own money during this time. That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m pointing out is that there is a lot of money available in the economy now, and your business will create new value and create new dollars in the economy. And so it’s not a zero-sum game. There’s no pie. There is a pool that keeps growing and growing and growing and growing.

20:26

And what you’re doing is adding to the growth and value of that pool by creating your startup. I would really encourage you to try it out. When you’re in investing mode, when you’re in fundraising mode, try out getting involved in a couple of startup groups near you, or investment clubs or things like that. And actually try introducing some of your investors to some other people you know who are raising money and see what happens, because here’s what I believe. I believe that, like I said, that the economy’s not limited. The universe is definitely not limited. The universe and God are not a zero-sum game. That’s not how they play. They play big. If you are willing to step into a spirit of generosity with what you do, you will be amazed at what happens. Now, I’m not telling you that you’re going to introduce someone to one of your investors. And that’s totally going to turn into you raising the money you need the next day. Right? It could happen. I don’t know. I mean, I’m not saying it’s not possible. I’m saying I’m not promising that outcome. What I’m saying is generosity is incredibly attractive. And if you believe the law of attraction, along with the 11 other laws of the universe that are just as important, but for some reason we focus on this one. A friend of mine said, it’s like she said, well, people love the law of attraction because it’s like unicorn farts and moonbeams, and she’s like, you know, I can say whatever I want, just attract it to myself, which just totally ignores the reality of the universe, but it’s attractive. And so we think of it that way. But if you look at the law of attraction, generosity is incredibly attractive. So if you are being generous, if you are generous with your time, generous with your knowledge, generous with your referrals, generous with the people around you, generous with other entrepreneurs, generous with your vulnerability and your heart and your spirit for what you’re doing, that we’ll come back to you in spades. And like I said, that doesn’t necessarily mean money. But remember how a few weeks ago, a few episodes ago, I was talking about what if you never raised a dollar, but your startup got built because you had a whole bunch of people who are willing to invest their time and their knowledge and that was enough to get stuff done. And you actually had a successful company. Would you take that? Yeah, I would. In a heartbeat, I would in a heartbeat. There’s no question that there are other ways than raising money. So what I’m saying is being generous only opens you up to all of the different ways that information and power and success can come to you and opens your heart and your mind to what that might look like. And it may look different than what you thought. The last piece of this. So let me, let me just cap that entrepreneurship is not a zero-sum game. Someone else isn’t losing because you’re winning; someone else isn’t missing out on getting money because you’re getting money. That is not how it works. That’s not how our economy’s designed. Stop thinking that way; that thinking is limiting you in a way of fear and scarcity that will hold you back. Start to deal with that. Start to journal. Why is it, what is it about someone else getting funded or someone that I know meeting my investor? What about that scares me? Or what about that makes me not want to be generous and support other people? Journal that for yourself, get all that out on paper so that you can see, turn those monologues in your head into first a journal entry on paper, but then have conversations with people in your life who you trust about it to start to transform that thought and those conversations that are going on into your head into reality, which is everyone could win. And that’s not everyone gets a trophy. Some people are going to work harder and those people are going to win bigger. But someone else winning doesn’t mean you can’t at this. Okay. So I just wanted to bring that back around. This is not a zero-sum game. So let’s widen the community. Let’s widen our ability and our willingness to support and grow each other, because it does not take away from ourselves. In fact, it adds to us. Okay. Okay.

24:33

So there’s one other piece to this that I know I’ve mentioned it before, but I kind of want to lay it out in a very specific and very like, I want you to know this thing, right? Which is, we typically only define success in one way, which is I have an idea. I build a startup. I exit it for millions and millions or hundreds of millions or a billion dollars, right? Billions of dollars. That’s what we call success. Here’s the thing. I am going to challenge that. And I am saying one of the premises of Precursa is that there is another form of success and that Precursa helps create this form of success, which is just as valid a success as the other one, which is: we are a huge success if you go into the platform, do all of your validation, do all of the tasks, put in all of your data and realize at the end, there’s nothing here. That is just as successful as realizing something’s there, going on to build it, it being a wild success, and you’re making a ton of money, or whatever it is that you’re trying to create. Now, the reason why is because the second you make the decision to spend time, energy, money, resources on one of these ideas, you may have many, you may only have one right now, but if you’ve had one, I promise there are others right there behind it. Once you start spending your resources on a particular idea, those resources can’t go anywhere else they’re already spent. They’re already moving in that direction. And your likelihood of continuing to push more in that one direction is much greater the more you put there. What we’re doing is saying, let’s get to that decision point before you spend all those time and resources where you can look at it and say, is this really viable or not? Because if you decide it’s not, you have now freed up all of those resources, all that money, all that time to be put towards something else, which may be a different idea you have that is more viable or a different venture that you want to go into. Or maybe you find somebody else’s thing that you want to get involved with and invest in through your time and money. This is a win as well. And in a lot of cases in the majority of cases, 90% of cases, that’s a bigger win than the other one. And the reason why is because 90% of startups ultimately fail, nine out of 10. If those nine out of 10 never pulled the trigger and said go because they realized earlier on the market wasn’t right, the total addressable market was too small. What they thought they could charge they really can’t. Their competitive landscape is way too crowded and they don’t have a unique enough differentiator. Like all of these things, or nobody in their addressable market wants what they’re building, which by the way is 42%. If those nine out of 10 people had a way of getting to that data, that was clear, that was objective, that gave it to them in no uncertain terms sooner, those nine out of 10 would be freed up to go do something that has a better shot at being successful. Now I’m not saying… So Crunchbase is the one that released a study that said 42% of startup founders fail because no one wants what they’re building. That’s actually the piece that I can address. Okay. So when I say nine out of 10, probably half of those, there was something else that caused their failure or something else that was more difficult to predict. I know I can predict the 42%. I’m certain of it. I see it every day, I’ve been doing this a very long time, and I just know when something has that product market fit, and when it doesn’t. That is predictable. It’s a preventable statistic. And that’s where Precursa is starting. Now along the way, I think teams are really important. I think that’s one reason that a lot of startups fail if they, even, if they do have product market fit, has to do with teams. Some of it’s about fundraising and raising money, but more about that is actually that the founders and the people who are having to pitch and raise, aren’t good at talking about what they do. And that’s also fixable, right? So am I saying that, well, let me just declare this. I would love it if in 10 years, 2031, Precursa was the beginning of the fire that switched the statistic on its head, where one out of 10 startups ultimately fails, who goes through the Precursa process or something similar to it, and actually establishes product market fit before spending time and money trying to build something. Will that happen? I don’t know. It’s what I’m setting out to do. Look for every Doug that I prevent. So I’ve told the story of Doug. He, he ultimately ended up spending about $500,000, four and a half years of his life. 250,000 of that was a mortgage on his house that was previously paid for, the other 250,000 was borrowed against his retirement. His wife ended up leaving him because he just wasn’t producing a result and their financial life was not good. And here he was four and a half years later, like, can you find a market for my product? Otherwise I’m interviewing to go back into corporate at 62 because I need to clean up this financial mess. And it’s really hard to convince people you’ve got seven good years in you at 62. Right now we could talk about that’s age-ism and all the other things. But that’s the reality of Doug’s story. Every Doug that we prevent, that’s massive, that’s lives that are saved. Those are lives that are not ruined. Those are people who have the opportunity and the excitement and the energy to try something else to innovate beyond what they thought was possible simply because they have more information now.

30:12

Okay. So what I’m saying is going through the Precursa process and getting to the point where you go, wow, there’s no ROI to be had here. The market’s not big enough, or I don’t have good product market fit. I’m not building the right thing or whatever that answer is that makes you say not for me and not for this, that’s a win. And I want you to leave your mind open to the win showing up that way, because that’s what will open you up to listening to what your users are saying. That’s what’s going to open you up to new ideas that could come in from the feedback you’re getting from the people that you’re interviewing, from your users, right. That’s where creativity comes from is staying open and staying willing to listen to what messages you’re hearing. Okay. So success isn’t, doesn’t always look like what we thought it looked like, and that’s good news because it means that there’s lots of ways to get to success. All right. So again, I just want to thank you all for coming on the journey. We’re growing our subscribers every week, simply because of the name of the podcast and the content in the podcast, which is awesome. As I talked about last episode, we’re still sort of figuring out the advertising thing. I think the landing page for the advertising is going to launch like today or Monday. So by next week, you know, last week in June, we should be able to start turning on advertising and start growing the list. And that’s going to explode this thing. But for the few hundred of you who are, who are listening already and who are here, you are early founders, you know, early investors in our company, and I’m really happy you’re here. And I’m really glad that you’re along for the ride and thank you for, for, and for being, being those humans. And please remember to keep sending in your questions. So if you have a question or something comes up or you want to argue with me about something, startup@precursa.com. And if you’re an early listener and you want to get one of the very first spots on the list for, for when we start opening up the platform, our first hundred are going to be our golden founders and you’re going to have offers and opportunities that other people just aren’t going to have. So go to precursa.com, click the request an invite is the button. There’s like several of them all down the page. Check out the video, which will give you a little bit more visibility into what is Precursa, how is it designed? What is it meant for and get on the list, request your invite, get on the list. And as soon as it’s available, we’re going to start at the very top of the list and, and work our way down and inviting in. And there’s going to be, like I said, some perks for being among the first 100 on that list. There are still a few slots in that first 100. So go grab yours now before the masses come. All right, folks, thank you again so much for being here. Thank you for listening to us every week. Subscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform. Reach out to me if you have questions or comments or concerns, and we will make sure that we either address those or I’ll reach back out to you personally, or, or whatever, whatever seems appropriate. As always, happy entrepreneuring, and I will see you all next time.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Precursa: The Startup Journey. If you have an idea for a startup and you want to explore the proven process of turning your idea into a viable business, check us out at precursa.com. Make sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, so you never miss an episode. Until next time…